Praise the Lord! Lutheran Schools Can Still Legally Discriminate Against Gay Staff and Students.
A Post by Neil Hart on homosexuality, LGBT , lesbian and gay stuff and the Lutheran Church of Australia.
On the 20th November the Federal Government released draft legislation which consolidates 5 Anti-Discrimination Laws. The proposed laws include new protected grounds for sexual orientation and gender identity.
Submissions on the proposed new legislation were called for early this year and the Lutheran Church and Lutheran Schools gave voice to their concerns through the various independent Schools Associations and an ad-hoc interfaith council. Predictably, the submissions focused on the potential loss of religious freedoms.
Well, it seems their petitions (both to the parliament and, I guess, to our Lord) were granted. Previous exceptions from anti-discrimination laws on the grounds of religion remain in the new legislation.
Section 33 of the legislation states…
It is not unlawful for a person to discriminate against another person if:
(a) the first person is a body established for religious purposes, or an officer, employee or agent of such a body; and
(b) the discrimination consists of conduct, engaged in in good faith, that:
(i) conforms to the doctrines, tenets or beliefs of that religion; or
(ii) is necessary to avoid injury to the religious sensitivities of adherents of that religion.
Thank God for religious sensitivities. (Insert wry smiley face).
A “Leadership Update” sent out by Lutheran Education Queensland announced the good news.
…importantly, the Bill does retain most of the existing exceptions for religious organisations – including those involved in the provision of education…
One can almost hear their collective sigh of relief.
Hmmmm.
Is anyone else just a little bit offended by this? As one Lutheran teacher said to me…
“Dont they realise how wrong this looks to those outside of the religion?”.
Surely he’s right. Every organisation that employs people and offers goods and services to the community are forced by legislation to act appropriately toward those they employ and those they serve. They are compelled not to discriminate. And yet our Church and Schools maintain that this law should not apply to them because of their “religious sensitivities”. Our church and schools feel uniquely qualified to discriminate…by God I guess (?)
Sigh.
##########
But… That is not the end of the story.
The proposed Bill offers one new ruling that I find very interesting and which, I believe Lutheran Educators should note well.
Section 33 continues…
The (religious) exception does not apply if:
(a) the discrimination is connected with the provision of Commonwealth funded aged care.
This means that Lutheran aged care facilities that receive Commonwealth funding are no longer able to discriminate against any of its clients on the basis of their sexual orientation. They can still discriminate against gay employees (insert sad emoticon) but not against those to whom their service extends.
The explanatory notes to the bill state the following
There was significant feedback during consultations of the discrimination faced by older same-sex couples in accessing aged care services run by religious organisations, particularly when seeking to be recognised as a couple. (pg 42)
It’s not hard to imagine the various scenarios.
Pam has a small unit in an aged care facility. She had fallen in love with Joy from the same facility and they have moved in together. They would gladly get married as other couples in this facility have done but the law prevents… If Joy or Pam had their own private unit they would be free to enjoy this fundamental right of a shared life and partnership. However, while they are in the aged care facility of a religious institution they are subject to the whims of the administrators. Acting on the complaints from the facility’s pastor and other residents they are refused permission to cohabit. The aged care facility claims religious exemption from anti-discrimination laws as the basis for their decision.
Or, Harry who is in need of a higher level of care has found a room in a religious aged care facility. Men and women in his situation who are married are given generous visiting arrangements and extended certain privacies when it comes to their partners. Harry, however, who has been with Martin for the last 40 years is not given those same rights. Once again the religious exceptions clause to the anti-discrimination laws are used to justify the decision.
So, the government has quite properly responded to protect the rights and needs of this particularly vulnerable group.
The explanatory notes continue…
When such services are provided with Commonwealth funding, the Government does not consider that discrimination in the provision of those services is appropriate. . (Pg 42.)
The ruling establishes that while a religious organisation has the right to protect its religious sensitivities that protection does not extend as far as to detriment those who receive the services of the organisation particularly if that organisation receives Commonwealth funding. If I may put words into the legislators collective mouth…
“Not on our watch and not with our money”.
###########
Gay couples in aged care facilities have obviously protested and they have been heard. But there is another vulnerable group who, because of their age, have no voice of their own. I am talking about gay and gender questioning young people who are in the care of religious schools.
Our schools face similar issues to those of our aged care facilities. Attitudes toward gay students is officially governed by Church statements which declare homosexuality to be sinful, disordered and diseased. Pastoral care is often provided by ministers who have sworn to uphold those statements. It is doubtful that these pastors would be able to provide the affirmation that these students so desperately need.
Sex education classes may well be provided by staff who have little understanding of the issues faced by gay or gender questioning students. Students may find themselves in classes of teachers who, because of their faith, are antagonistic toward “homosexual activity” or “homosexual lifestyle choices”. Because of the LCA’s statements these teachers may feel free (even duty bound) to voice their opinions.
One may question whether the above scenarios are accurate and point to the very real positive care that is given in many Lutheran Schools. However, the documented increased levels of depression, isolation, self harm and attempted suicide by young gay people in religious schools and organisations attests to the fact that a very real problem exists. (See Writing Themsleves In Reports 2 and 3 2004, 2010)
So, why has the government acted to protect those vulnerable gay people in aged care facilities and not those in religious schools?
Perhaps its simply because their voice has not yet been heard.
Perhaps someone should do something about that.
Lutheran Educators take note. This is only the start of the story.
Agree :)
A student of a lutheran school made a presentation at church today about their time at the Board for Youth and Family Ministry National Youth Forum. The young speaker said they were taught all about the LCA and discussed many things, including: “The issue of homosexuals in the church and what we are going to do about it”
http://www.lca.org.au/youth-forum-highlights-barriers-to-faith.html
Thanks for the info and the link, Jingo. Man-o-man I would have loved to have been at the youth forum discussion with CTICR members on sexuality. I wonder, did the CTICR members listen or just attempt to defend the indefensible and further alienate a new generation who do not share their fear.
Just posted a comment on the LCA website. So great to hear that the students at our Lutheran schools get ‘it’! To them homosexual relationships are just plain normal and the more this subject can be normailsed in the church the better. I wonder if the LEA (?) have heard from this forum?
It’s a good thing, I suppose, that your church is still given exceptions from laws that restrain other civilized people. I can see why it might be hard to give that up. Next they’ll be wanting churches to pay taxes, especially when meddling in politics, and you can guess where that leads.
Right now the world is still in shock over the death of the young woman, Savita Halappanavar, in Ireland because her life was deemed equivalent to the life of a pulsating group of doomed cells poised to kill her in the medical opinion of a bunch of fossilized old men who had never attended medical school. I know that was the horrible Catholics, and nothing to do with Lutherans at all. But there is a similar principle involved. Churches assume moral authority with no qualifications or mandate. They tell us they speak for God. More and more of us are ready to treat that assertion with the contempt it deserves.
I do find it ironic that the atheists seem to have more legitimate moral authority than the leaders of the major Christian churches.
Thanks for this reference. I was unaware of the case. I am aware of the systematic Republican push to close all abortion clinics in red states over the last couple of years. I hear your argument and dont disagree. But it is more complicated than anti-abortion christians and pro-abortion atheists. I have no doubt that Dr George Tiller understood that his work was carried out in service to the women in the community that needed him and to the God he worshipped. He was shot and killed while serving as a door greeter in his Lutheran Church In Wichita Kansas in 2009 because of that service to the community.
http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/savita-death-probe-to-be-published-3311255.html
Neil, please delete that last comment of mine. Nobody in your crowd needs to read that. Sorry. Just blithering on again. Thanks.
And I see you have answered me already, so maybe leaving my comment in is okay. I’m just a bit embarrassed by it, but it is good to know about the Irish case. Here’s another link. http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/11/28/catholic-priests-shut-up/
I sent this one to my Catholic mother in law. She wrote back to say she passed it along to her bishop. Good for her.
People have choices it is a God given right to choose. I choose to follow Christ, Darwin Harmless choses not to. In reality in my view if the government is more afraid of two things: Islamic backlash and pressure from those forums and the withdrawal of services offered by the faith communities be they Christian, Islamic or Jewish. The education and old age care systems would collapse if faith groups pulled all funding and services. Maybe faith organizations have no business being in these community based services and receiving government funding. Maybe ban all religions and religious groups because they do not hold the same values as the the majority of the “enlightened community”. Maybe change our name to China Minor ( or maybe more China’s mines). Remove all choice have a ban on free will choice.
Lets not lose sight of the basic problem that is being highlighted by this post and this blog. It is really very simple. People are getting hurt. None of us are free to do whatever we like and hurt people. Gay people in the community are hurt by the prejudices and fear based actions of others in the community. The Christians are a part of that community. But they are a particularly powerful part. The church has the ability in an organised way with private and federal funding to do a lot of good. And they do. They also have a lot of power to do harm in an organised and way. In regard to gay people in aged care centres and schools harm is being done. I dont think that anyone is disputing that fact.
“I choose to follow Christ”
So, you’re not a Lutheran then. :)
REALLY! Ok where does that start and stop. I think that leaving nightclubs open all night is doing harm, I think that pokies a ruin peoples lives, I think abortion hurts all concerned and kills young lives (notwithstanding common sense unlike Ireland case) personally I think driving at 100klm in country sucks should be able to do 120klm, gun license restrictions are ridiculous for farmers having police prosecuting and taking guns away because the wife knows where the key is but doesn’t hold a gun license. All these things are hurting people. But I have a choice protect my kids and tell them about drugs and alcohol, obey the speed laws or cop the consequences, keep secrets from my wife or have my guns confiscated. I accept people have the right to choose if the majority want to have nightclubs open all night or have an abortion or allow a gay couple to get married and provide the same support for a gay old age couple. But when it comes to appointing people should not have the owning controlling body have a say? Teachers who are gay have a choice teach elsewhere, nurses who are gay have choice nurse elsewhere, students and parents have a choice send their child elsewhere. I make the point I don’t agree necessarily with the this but if people have a real issue with this and they have there choice removed then is this not removal of religious freedom and choice? Do we then mandate what happens in people homes? So doing harm to another in our current society is not a criteria for removing choices is it. Come down to the fundamental question of what do you personally believe God wants us to choose and for those who don’t believe in God what do they want to choose tempered by what the majority think is right.
Being a Christian it is easier but Christian disagree on what they think God is saying as you are acutely aware. It should be a decision of the majority of LCA members not of governments in these cases because while your thinking they doing harm their would be people who have an opposing view that in fact they are helping right or wrong.
as long as one cent of my taxes goes to funding religious organisations then i believe that they should be subjected to the same laws of the land that i am.
Yes. if it is illegal to discriminate in the workplace or in who you serve or in the services you provide… then it is illegal.
actually neil, i think it is just plain wrong. but if you are going to take the coin, then you should have to sign up to the rules.
Your 100% correct Janine but then will depend on what what the government signed up for as well. Is the funding to control or to supplement. But the reverse is true if you know that a organization has certain views should not then abide by their values. You will just have to imagine all your tax % on education went to public schools and all who hold differing views than you and have different values will have to believe all their taxes went to private schools of their choice.
Greg. I did not choose to not follow Jesus Christ. I don’t think Jesus Christ exists. How could I follow somebody who doesn’t exist? It’s not a choice.
Sorry Darwin Harmless He does not exist in your reality. Remember our realities are defined by our thoughts. Your reality and His are different. We live our lives in our minds. And historically Jesus existed you don’t believe in God as I understand it.
Chris Ex Lutheran and I do not agree with organizations like LCA not real church in the true sense of the meaning. I believe in hands on Christianity like that’s everyday in every-way moving between groups with missions that I feel called to be involved in. If not serving others then I believe we are not doing what we are called to do. I relate to being a disciple of Jesus. To me denominations are an impediment to this. Should be mission based not a decisive doctrinal difference based.
Greg: “Remember our realities are defined by our thoughts.” It is possible to test this assertion. Walk on that water. Walk through that wall. There are those who believe that enough faith will let them do these things. So far they haven’t convinced me. I think if you are honest with yourself you will admit that your reality was pretty much determined by the circumstances of your birth, including your religious convictions. There is a reality for all of us. Ignoring this can cause you real problems. The trick is to figure out what that reality is and work with it. No matter how “inspired” your guesses might be, speculation and faith based decisions are not the best way to do this.
Sorry Darwin Harmless mind are based on experience, personal and seeing transformation in others lives. No not walking through walls or walking on water although I am an avid barefoot water skier ( but I don’t think that counts!) The difficulty is unless you want to, unless you invite God to reveal Himself he will not. Unlike some “pushy Christians” He will knock and will give you insights BUT you have to pray for Him to reveal himself. Just as you have a clear mind that God does not exist for me He Truly does I see Him in every thing in my life. No I am not a nut I am a rational human being, a business owner, father of four happily married University educated in both science and business. And I don’t need to test because I believe by faith. A small seed of faith which has grown by experience and knowing. But I accept that you do not want God to reveal Himself to you many don’t.
Not wanting to hijack. But let’s look at the tragedies/catastrophes that happen in the world that so many of the faithful who have invited god i to their lives, pray to prevent (keep us safe, yada yada). Why doesn’t god prevent these? Either he can’t, he chooses not to or he doesn’t exist. So is he impotent, evil or imaginary?
M
Thats fine M. No hijacking on this plane. I xray all comments before allowing them onboard to make sure they are they hold no real threat.
No need to apologized, Greg. But I do disagree with you. Being a business owner, father of four, married and university educated in both science and business obviously do not mean you are ipso facto rational. In fact, a denial of reason, i.e. “And I don’t need to test because I believe by faith”, is a denial of rationality. I’m sorry if I come across as one of those pushy atheists, but you can’t have it both ways. You can’t claim rationality and then deny the need for reason. Doesn’t work that way.
I think reality is important. But I too have an irrational belief. I believe that everything in my reality is a result of my thoughts, beliefs and actions. The first time this was suggested to me, at one of those expensive touchy-feely seminars, I stood up and said “bullshit” far too loudly. If I am walking through the park and a meteor comes down and hits me on the head, how is that a result of my thoughts, beliefs and actions? The facilitator explained that while this might not be the TRUTH (making that little quotation mark gesture with her fingers), it is very useful to adopt as the truth. And the more you do that, the more true it will appear to be, and the more useful, because the alternative is to be a victim and blame circumstances or other people for your situation in life. That made sense, so I thought I’d give it a try. And sure enough, the more I accept that as a belief, the more useful it becomes and the more true it feels. It was my choice to walk in that park. It was my choice to leave my garbage can lid and tinfoil hat at home. If I get hit by a meteorite, it will be the result of my thoughts, beliefs, and actions. I believed the park was a safe place to walk and obviously it wasn’t.
So I try to live my life as if this were true. I take responsibility for my situation in life. I know that shit happens, and that many things are beyond my control. But I also know that things happen because I let them happen, or don’t stop to think about what might happen, or simply accept the risk I am taking. I know that this belief is irrational and does not reflect reality, but it is useful. It allows me to look at something I can change – my own thoughts and actions – instead of looking at things I can’t change when I’m not happy with reality.
This seems to me to be the opposite of what religious people do. They do not take responsibility for their own lives, their own decisions. They “leave it up to God”, totally ignoring the fact that God is merely another word for their subconscious mind and desires, their training, their biases and prejudices and most of all their wishful thinking. This prevents any real introspection and any real ability to change. How can you change anything if you believe that God made you the way you are and gave you the answers? So, from my point of view, religious people live their lives as children, constantly blaming God or Jesus or Satan or some other outside entity for who and what they are, constantly asking for help to become what they want to be. The are good because they seek approval of this being, and they avoid being bad because they fear punishment. These are the attitudes of children. “See what you made me do.” I’d like to see people “be good for goodness sake”, as the Christmas song goes. Personally, I find I like myself much more if my actions are moral. I think it’s important to like myself.
Greg, I’m fairly sure you are a good person. Ask yourself, would you not be just as good without God? Or do you need the divine father figure watching your every move and listening to your every thought before you can behave yourself. Do you need the threat of eternal punishment to keep you from doing things you know are bad? I rather doubt it. You may get a lot of emotional perks from your belief in God and Jesus Christ, but if they weren’t there you would still love your wife, love your children, love your life. My guess is that life would seem even more precious because you would have no illusions about it going on forever.
Merry Christmas.
I like you Darwin Harmless your a no BS straight shooter. You last paragraph is a great one. And you are right their are a lot of people out there who either want some thing from God, try and manipulate God, want God as their great cosmic butler. I choose free will to live my life as a disciple of Jesus Christ and I would if their was no heaven or hell it’s just a great way to live life or thats my experience. We could debate to the cows come home. There a lot we cannot test. What is the purpose of life? What exactly is life all about? How did we move from absolute zero? Where did matter ever come from? Why did it happen this life thing? I respect you viewa and your right to hold them. And I a pleased you are a good person the world is running short of them.
Greg, well put ‘er there pal. I just can’t connect with your beliefs at all. It’s like somebody who is colour blind trying to understand what people are talking about when they describe colours. Or like somebody with no appreciation for music trying to understand what all the fuss is about. I just don’t connect. The language people use when they talk about “being a disciple of Jesus” is simply meaningless to me. But it’s nice to know that we can accept each other’s views and respect our mutual humanity.
Yes, there are many questions. Smart people are trying to answer them, and they lose me as soon as they talk about matter being mostly empty space and quantum coupling and such. I think where I separate from religion is when people try to tell me that this whole amazing show was put together just for us, that we are special, somehow not animals. That seems very arrogant to me. Preposterously so, given the size and variety in this universe. Everything I see indicates to me that we are animals. Just very special, very self involved, animals with big brains. I see today that they have done experiments that show that rats demonstrate empathy. Rats. Who would have thought? https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cwg4DB-EeEA
I don’t think there is a purpose to life, other than the purpose we give it. I am not a nihilist, but I think we only value things because we are hard wired to value things because if we didn’t we wouldn’t be here. That makes sense to me. So we are along for the ride, and what a ride it is.
Have a great holiday season. Again, Merry Christmas.
Same to you mate. I hope your blessed by the people you spend it with and I hope you bless then as well with your presence. That’s what it all about meaningful loving relationships, not based on need to but based on want to. The distinctive difference between man and animal.
Where humans are unique is we are like our creator we can create. We create things for no purpose other than relaxation, for expression as example art and music. Sure birds whistle a similar tune and for a purpose usually reproduction. We create for purpose houses all different and changing constantly we don’t want just function we are looking for beauty as well. Our relationships are also different they are not just for reproduction, or dependence. Generally we look after one another protect the weak and look after the disabled. Thats a fair way on from rat empathy. And we have the opposite absolute ability to inflict the most horrendous acts on each other child soldiers forced to rape and kill, Rwandans turn on each other an inflict brutal acts upon each other and people still wondering why, humanity gone made. And yes to be fair acts of terror and mayhem in the name of religion. We are different, very different. Relationships is at the heart of man and this is what this blog is about.
Gregg, it seems to me that we’ve been trying to establish our uniqueness for some time, and the more we look at the animal world, the more we see our uniqueness eroded. When I was a kid it was claimed that we were the only animals who used tools. Then we found animals who used tools, and the claim was altered to we are the only animals who make tools. Now we’ve found animals who make tools. But of course they can’t make a helicopter, so I guess we are unique. It’s a matter of degree, not of kind. I was surprised to learn that the first tool used by man was the hand ax, a stone ax with no handle. That tool remained unchanged for a million years. Think about that. A million years. I can barely comprehend such a number. That’s two hundred times longer than all of recorded history. A million years and nobody thought to put a handle on that stone ax. Why not? Because at that stage of our development, expecting us to innovate would be like expecting a robin to put a roof over its nest. We just hadn’t developed the mental capacity for imagination.
As I said, my main problem with the Christian concept of a creator is that it tries to say that everything was done for us, with us at the center of everything, the ultimate purpose in God’s mind. So the universe existed for billions of years before we came along, and now we find that it is hugely bigger than we every thought, with billions upon trillions of stars and galaxies and planets, many no doubt just as good for life as earth. And we still are claiming that He did this all for us? Seems a bit… pretentious to me. Reminds me of the ant floating downstream on a match stick, lying on his back and yelling to open the drawbridge because he has an erection. (Oh wow, that is such an old and childish joke. Do ants even get erections. I rather doubt it.)
You think we were created. I think we happened, like all of life happened, through chemical processes and natural events. I think we have pretty much figured out how we happened. And I think this story is far more interesting and awe inspiring than any story about how some other intelligence created us. If another intelligence, God, created us, then where did He come from? If he has always existed, then why not say that the universe has always existed and cut out the middle man?
I was fascinated to learn that all serial killers suffer from brain damage. That gives a completely different interpretation of bad behavior. It makes the idea of sin rather meaningless. Sin is the result of a malfunctioning brain. Now that makes sense. If our brain is functioning perfectly, we would never sin. It just doesn’t make sense.
I could go on like that at you for hours, Gregg. No doubt you’ve heard all this before though, and are still firm in your beliefs. So I’ll give it a rest.
It’s a great world to be alive in, isn’t it? And are we not living in the most interesting and exciting times ever? May you and yours be well and happy.
Good on you Darwin Harmless you stick to your beliefs and I will stick to mine. I glad we can dialog like this for hours like you said. In end we will find out. If your right I will never know and if I am right you will know.
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