Comment Pt 3: Homosexual love, pedophilia, bestiality, adultery and incest.
A post by Neil Hart on homosexuality, LGBT, lesbian and gay stuff and the Lutheran Church of Australia.
These 3 posts arise our of comments/ questions posed by one of our readers. The full comment and other replies can be found on the 6 December post “Sorry Rob Pollnitz and the CSBQ”.
Our reader asks…
Do all of these arguments I hear from the gay-lobby apply to other people who “love”? Do the arguments apply to pre – marital and extra – marital affairs. Do they apply to pedophiles and the practice of bestiality? What about multiple partners simultaneously? Then of course can the same arguments I hear be applied to incestuous relationships? Surely they all “love”? Surely the real argument is whether something is a sin in God’s eyes or not and not on sentimentality or that it feels right. Of course the good news for Christians is that all sin: greed, pride, avarice, gluttony, lust etc etc is covered and then washed away by the blood of the lamb. 1 John 1:9.
Here a response to this question from one of our gay readers.
I do not know you, so I cannot comment on whether you are or not.
Sometimes the words people use to describe each other are hurtful, even if they are accurate words to describe someone.
a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, esp on religion, politics, or race
not tolerating or respecting beliefs, opinions, usages, manners, etc., different from one’s own, as in political or religious matters; bigoted.
unable or unwilling to tolerate or endure
I suppose we’re all bigots in one way or another. It’s the connotation that the word itself has come to hold that causes offense and hurt to those it is inflicted upon. Kinda like some other words that people in society use to describe GLBT folk.
I will endeavour to not use words to misrepresent or offend others… if others also keep in mind to not use words to misrepresent or offend others.
Debauchery is debauchery no matter who we’re talking about… but I don’t think this is what GLBT Lutherans are asking for, carte blanche to have debauched sex in the streets. What does one’s conscience tell them about beastiality? What does one’s conscience tell them about pedophillia? What does one’s conscience tell them about respecting the rights of two consenting adults? (where in the other examples there is only one abusing adult [consenting in one way] and a non-consenting child or animal)What does one’s conscience tell them about standing up for and upholding the rights of those who are unable to uphold their own (child, animal)?
Your point about adultery needs to be considered on its labelling as sin. Yes, I agree with you that adultery is sin. But, and I think we may probably disagree on this, I do not believe that homosexuality or the act is sin. That is where the difference is seen. There is no attempt to completely relabel everything in Bible listed as sin as okay. What makes sense, based on your hermeneutic? (and that may be something different for the both of us…)Jesus loves me this I know.
Reader, you asked for a comment and you have received one from one of our LGBT readers. But i want you to understand the significance of what just occurred.
In exactly the same way as you, he feels attracted to another human. Like you, he desires to have a lifelong union with that person, to live together and share all life’s joys and sorrows. He desires to give and to receive love as a whole, complete person, emotionally, intellectually, spiritually and physically.
The love you feel and express toward your partner is supported and celebrated by your family and your church. The love he feels, the same love as you, you have just classified as akin to adultery, pedophilia, beastiality and incest.
I winced when I read your question. I winced for my gay friend because i know that he receives this insult, these hurtful words again and again, and not from secular society that can be so callus and indifferent to the needs of others. He receives these insults from his christian brothers and sisters, from his own church.
And how does he respond? He responds with grace and restraint. You are a better man than i am “marginalised member of the LCA”. Me? When i get insulted or hurt, i shoot off at the lip!
This argument has been made repeatedly. I just repeat what i have said in the past…
None of what you describe in your comment has anything to do with same sex attracted people who desire to express their love to each other within the bounds of a lifelong committed and faithful relationship.
There are people who desire to have lifelong loving and committed and sexual relationships with someone they are emotionally and physically attracted to. Most are heterosexual. Some of them are same sex attracted. You and I probably fall into this category.
There are some screwed up people who desire to rape and sexually abuse people whom they can overpower or manipulate in some way. There are some people who engage in promiscuous sex sometimes with more than one partner at one time or even with animals. There are people who engage in incest. Most of these people are heterosexual, some are same sex attracted. You and I probably do not fall into this category.
THERE IS NO DIRECT CONNECTION BETWEEN THESE TWO GROUPS.
I know you a little, reader, enough to know that you have a godly heart, a compassionate heart. As do so many of your christian brothers in the ministry, And yet, when it comes to my gay friend your words are sharp and accusing and represent anything but the love that God would want spoken to him today. I suspect that your voice comes from your consideration that homosexuality is sin. For me it is simple. The bible does not call life long monogamous sexual love sinful whether it be between 2 homosexual or two heterosexual people.
This matter is so very important at this time in history. I ask you and all those who have been given the responsibility to minister to God’s people with his word. Please look again at the very few bible texts on which your view is based. Look at Romans 1. Compare it to the slavery verses in Eph 5:21- 6:9 and Colosians 3:18-25 or the really confusing verses in 1 Cor 11 on hair. In the past these verses were strictly ans literally adhered to as clear word of God. But they are not any more. Why not? Does this inform your reading of Romans 1? It should if you have a consistent hermaneutic. Please look again. Listen to Hilary Clinton’s speech on the previous post. Please be very sure of the ground on which you stand. For my friend’s sake and for God’s.